The 45th president was Letterman’s guest more than 30 times between ‘Late Night WQith David Letterman’ and ‘The Late Show With David Letterman.’

David Letterman enjoyed having Donald Trump appear as a guest on the late-night talk shows he hosted for 33 years, NBC’s Late Night With David Letterman (1982-1993) and CBS’ The Late Show With David Letterman (1993-2015), but the current host of Netflix’s My Next Guest Needs No Introduction is no longer a fan of the New York mogul who became the 45th president. This much was made abundantly clear during a rare interview that Letterman granted to The Hollywood Reporter‘s ‘Awards Chatter’ podcast.

“More than 30?” Letterman exclaimed in disbelief when told how many times Trump was his guest. “Wow! You’re welcome, America.” Turning serious, the 72-year-old said, “I think he just liked being on TV. I had no sense that he was the soulless bastard that he’s turned into.”

Letterman continued, “Everybody says, ‘Oh, wouldn’t you like to talk to Donald Trump [today]?’ And I would. I would just like to say, ‘Don, it’s Dave. Remember me? I want to talk to the real Donald Trump.’ Because I now don’t know which is the real Donald Trump, and if the Donald Trump that I was talking to [back then] was the real Donald Trump, how do you get to be the guy he is now? Politics notwithstanding — let’s just say everything is great and he’s done a great job, but he still behaves the way he behaves — who behaves like that?!”

Letterman went on to emphasize, “He used to be kind of like the boob of New York that pretended to be wealthy, or we thought was wealthy, and now he’s just a psychotic. Is that putting too fine a point on it?” He added, “I don’t even care if it’s recorded, I would just like to talk to the guy, because, as I said before, he knows me, I know him — what the hell went wrong?!”

You can listen to audio of the full conversation below.

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